European Talent Trends Every HR Leader Should Know

European Talent Trends Every HR Leader Should Know

Host: Mervyn Dinnen

Guest: Rhea Moss & Eric Gelle, iCIMS

In this episode Mervyn Dinnen talks to Rhea Moss, Global Head of Workforce & Customer Insights, and Eric Gelle, Senior Vice President of EMEA Sales, iCIMS, about their latest workforce insights research focused on the European talent market.

During the conversation they analyse key findings:

• More women are applying for roles in Europe than other regions, although the majority of overall applications are still made by men
• Increase in women being offered six-figure salary roles, and why they are still less likely to apply for them
• Why women spend longer researching career sites
• Increasing length of time to hire as more interviews and virtual calls are added to the process
• The role of technology in improving the Candidate Experience
• Impact of layoffs in the Talent Acquisition sector

iCIMS Workforce Report here

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Transcript follows:

Mervyn Dinnen 0:17
Hello, and welcome to the HR Means Business podcast, which is part of the HR Happy Hour Network. I’m your host Mervyn Dinnen. Today I want to look at European recruitment and talent acquisition trends. I’m delighted to be joined by the team from iCIMS, who will indeed introduce themselves in a moment, but our global talent acquisition business. And they have looked for the first time at what’s happening in Europe in terms of recruitment in terms of hiring. And I think there’s some quite interesting findings that I would like to explore with them today. So I have Rhea and Eric from iCIMS. And Rhea, could you introduce yourself and explain to people what it is you do?

Rhea Moss 1:04
Sure, thank you for having me. I’m Rhea Moss, I lead the insights program at iCIMS. If you’re not familiar with the insights program, we are a data research part of the organization that looks at the collective usage of our software and how it relates to talent acquisition trends, whether that be through applicants or through companies and who’s hiring, how are they hiring? Where are they hiring. To give you a sense of the data set that we look at, we have about 6000 companies inside there, and all of their hiring data and about 150 million applications coming through the system last year. So large scale of data that my team then gets the published research reports to share with the public, our customers in the community on what we’re seeing as trends happening right now.

Mervyn Dinnen 1:47
Thank you. And Eric, who’s about to introduce yourself?

Eric Gelle 1:50
Yes, thank you, Marvin. So I’m actually I’m the SVP sales here, EMEA. I joined iCIMS, one year ago. So quite recently, but my background in HR slash recruiting slash us is roughly 25 years. So I spent my last 25 years in tech companies and addressing the recruiting. And yeah, I see some trends and some evolution in the recruiting world. But most of the companies are still struggling hiring the right talent. So that’s very interesting to see that.

Mervyn Dinnen 2:23
It’s a global issue. Now Rhea, I’m interested because this is the first time you’ve actually done your insights, particularly in Europe. Was there a reason that you chose Europe this time?

Rhea Moss 2:35
Yeah, we have been publishing insights reports. I’ve been at iCIMS over seven years. And around since I started. In 2020, we started publishing a monthly workforce report, just really trying to help the whole world know what was happening during some wild times. And then we’ve been really expanding our footprint as a business in Europe. You know, we’re happy to have Eric join us a year ago, and really building out a team over there. And we have some incredible customers over there that the demand was being asked constantly, how can we get some of these reports tailored specifically to the European market? So we’re excited to really dive in this year and publish some specialized reports to that geography?

Mervyn Dinnen 3:12
Okay. Now, the what’s what’s interesting about this is that the BBC have picked up on your research. And so the first question I’m going to ask you is come from one of the things the BBC have led on, which has caused quite a bit of debate in what I call the digital narrative on various, various sites. And that is that in Europe, more women tend to apply for jobs at the men, whereas in North America, it tends to be more men than women. Did you find any reason for this?

Rhea Moss 3:44
Yeah, you know, it’s really interesting, we talk a lot about I joke, I have a background in data and math, but I think it would have been better suited to have background in psychology to look at a lot of these things. There’s so many external factors at play that really affect the dynamic of somebody interacting with the career site. And if you really go down to kind of the software side of it, that’s what we’re looking at here is when we look at the gender conversion rates is what we call them, right? The percentage of people that apply for a job, when they look at a career, they look at a crusade, look at a job description, what percentage actually go through and finish the application, there are a lot of dynamics of psychology to it. And we know that when you think of job seekers, it’s two things right. It’s people that may be unemployed looking for work, but we also know that it may be people that are employed and then looking for their next opportunity. And that’s where we do see a lot of shifts where in different geographies, there’s different dynamics at play there. We know things like maternity leave policies have big effects, and they’re very different in different geographies. It is really interesting. That was one of the points that we found. And just to share with everybody listening, if you look across the world globally, we see about 50% of applicants are male about 50% are female, obviously very different numbers. If we Look at specific industries or hire types. But across globally, we see that the application conversion rate I was talking about is 20%. When we look for men, so about one in five men that read a job description will finish the application, but it’s only 18%. For women, what’s interesting when we look at AMEA, though, and I think this is the number you’re referencing, is that it’s about 48% of all applicants right now are male, but 52% are female.

Eric Gelle 5:27
Maybe one word on that may have been in conversation with a couple of our CHROs and a couple of our customers and they are diversity and inclusion is a key topic and the parity between men and women is also a very key topic in the larger organization. And probably, because on the market, most of the companies are looking for more women, it’s it allows women to apply more to jobs than before. So they feel more confident. And because of that trend on the market, they are clearly feeling more pushed by the market to apply and which is they think, and we are all an editor also probably I don’t know of all the data, but it depends also on the industry. So in certain services and finance and insurance, definitely much more women than in into the EOD industry business. So clearly interesting to see also the trends per industry.

Mervyn Dinnen 6:28
Sure, the I suppose it’s interesting, and I think we get this probably both sides of the Atlantic, but the smaller share of women will apply to roles with say $100,000 or 100,000 pounds plus salaries. But hires are split 50. Now, there’s I know, historically, it’s often been said on other bits of research, I’ve seen that, you know, men, if men will look at the job description, if they can do kind of most of what they see, they’ll apply where women want to know they can do everything they see on the job application before they apply. Do you think this is kind of now beginning to play out? So is you know, with with with the fewer women applying, but actually, technically, I suppose a slightly larger number of them actually getting the jobs.

Rhea Moss 7:17
We actually researched a global look at that recently, and about 37% of jobs that typically pay, you know, over a six figure salary, the applicants are about 37%, female and 63% male. But when we look at hires, it’s actually closer to that 5050 split with about 47% of hires being female, than male. If you think of the talent pool, it’s fair to say, roughly, there’s equal quality in those types of roles, for the most part. But what is interesting to your point is, again, that dynamic of women may be less likely to put their name in the hat if you have, you know, a laundry list of 20 things that are must haves not nice to have in the job description, we do know that there’s lots of studies have proven right, it’s more likely the man will apply even if they fit, I believe the number is six out of 10, or seven out of 10. Whereas the woman most likely wants 10 out of 10 to be a perfect alignment. But that’s not what companies want. Companies are looking for diverse workforces. And there, there’s much research to show that the more diverse you are from top to bottom, there’s actual financial impact and better performance in the business. So there is sort of a dynamic of maybe less people throwing their their hat in the ring. But that talent, if you assume those talent pools are equal split amongst those genders. Companies are doing a good job of sort of sorting through that and not letting just necessarily quality may quantity. And what we’re seeing is that they’re actually looking through that quality and saying we want to find the right talent, and they’re ending up finding it being pretty 50/50 for the hire.

Eric Gelle 8:47
Good. You know what I think the technology is also helping to get this balance of 50/50. Because AI is clearly removing some layers, and it’s helping companies to search on skills, purely skills and competencies and less on the number of applicants. So you because you get more choice and because the AI is doing the job of qualifying better qualifying, I think it’s also apt to get this better balance.

Mervyn Dinnen 9:20
There was also an interesting, I noticed that the female candidates are less likely to apply directly from a career site. And there was something I know there wasn’t much in it. It was all but but women tend to spend slightly longer looking at career sites and researching the companies, the men. I mean, do you think this maybe contributes towards the fact that women are currently getting more jobs because they’re probably a little bit more into the research?

Rhea Moss 9:51
I mean, like we can’t speak for the gender as a whole. I can speak to the dynamic in my house. I can say that, you know, most things are done a little bit slower and more carefully by women and in my home specifically. Yes, that’s it is an interesting view that we found that is that they’re spending longer than reacting with, you know, slightly more pieces of the career site, they’re doing a little bit more research that may go back to kind of that same dynamic of I want to make sure I’m a complete perfect fit as opposed to a pretty good fit. But yes, it’s that part was very fascinating. I mean, it’s interesting to put data to something that you kind of have an emotion around feeling that women are doing something in a certain way differently than their male counterparts. But it was fun to actually see that play out in the data itself.

Mervyn Dinnen 10:35
There seems to be a slight mismatch at the moment looking again, at Europe, we’ll Amir that the there were a lot of applications, there seem to be kind of a lot of traffic at the beginning of the year, but they the firing wasn’t the applications were higher, shall we say the actual jobs field? I mean, is this something you think, specific to Europe? Or is this something you’re seeing globally?

Rhea Moss 11:01
This is actually specific to Europe, or a lot not specific to your own link. But it’s something that is different from the global view, what we see across the global view is actually, that applications openings and hires kind of clustered together pretty nicely, they tend to move in a similar pattern. And that’s where we’ll see, when we do see even a slight shift, that’s a big dynamic change. It’s where we, you know, saw things like labor shortages. But this was specific to Amelia. And I’m actually going to ask Eric, because as we were writing the report, we called Eric and said, Is there something you’re thinking in a meal, I mean, this was it was a drastic difference between the number of applications in the space and openings. And then two point fills or hires happening in the space. So all at Eric’s everything I know, I learned from Eric on this one. So I’m gonna let him take this one.

Mervyn Dinnen 11:51
Over to Eric.

Eric Gelle 11:53
I think the economical situation is completely different. If you compare you EBA and the US market. In Europe, it’s a little crisis compared to the to the to the US market. And I think that that’s also why I know in the in the tech industry, there is plenty redundancy plan. And plenty companies are not hiring slash freezing slash firing people. So that’s probably why also the volume of candidates is increasing. So as simple as that the economical situation is very different right now. So that’s probably why we have much more applicants now than then one year ago.

Mervyn Dinnen 12:36
And in the research, you you mention, or use the line that the balance of power has shifted away from candidates, and employers, particularly in Europe, are kind of in the driver’s seat, because you know, applicants per per job tend to be quite high. Is this something that, again, is maybe more specific to European organizations hiring? Or is it something that’s fairly global at the moment?

Rhea Moss 13:05
We’re seeing that globally, the applicants for opening ratio, I know it’s not the most common uses, but it is personally one of my favorite metrics to look at is really, if you could put a value to supply and demand of talent. And when we see areas that have struggled think health care, education over the last three or four years, it’s when we saw that APO number would be down sometimes in the single digits, or even low teens, if you think clinical health care positions. That’s where you see that sort of the desperate employers that I just need somebody, anybody, I’m really, I need talent bad. Then you see it. I know Eric mentioned this earlier software or tech type roles. And we’ve been seeing that number skyrocket. There’s a lot of talent out there looking a little bit of slowdown in hiring. So then those two pieces together kind of makeup that applicants are opening number. We’ve been seeing it go up globally, for the last couple years, which has been good news for a lot of our customers who’ve had a really tough time hiring. But yes, in AMEA, it’s specifically it has continued to rise. It was I’ll give you a sense it was 30 in February of 2023. And it’s 43 now, so that was really good news to see that for your space as well. And as Eric was saying, it also speaks to Job Seeker confidence of feeling like maybe it is a good time to go find work, or find the next opportunity if they are currently working.

Mervyn Dinnen 14:30
Eric, do you have anything to add?

Eric Gelle 14:32
I think it we still are all companies are still struggling to a couple of very specific jobs. I think some especially in the data scientist community, it’s there is still some very highly research people on the market but generally speaking, yes, much more elegant in every industry, even if companies are still Waiting for few profile, I think they have more choice is good in a certain way. And it’s also, the paradox is also because you have more applicants, should you spend more time hiring people. So the time to hire is also I guess we are going to talk about that. But the time toy is also increasing a lot. And because the time value is increasing, you have much more applicants. Also, if you say it’s higher in 10 days, then you will get less applicants. If you say, I give myself six weeks, nine weeks before hiring, then you get much more applicants have used to say, but that’s the reality.

Rhea Moss 15:41
I think Eric brings out a really good point as well, which is just because you have the quantity coming in, you’re not looking for, in general, this applicants per opening, right. So if you’re looking for five people, you’re looking for five people, just because you have 20 to 30%, more applicants are still looking for the same number of people. So that also brings around a different shift of, you know, new type of problems, I’ll call it red, our old problems are becoming new problems, again, where we’re now having customers say, I have too many candidates, it’s hard to find the right one I’m sorting through unqualified candidates, or not the right candidate, I always say it’s not about how many it’s about how fast can you find to your point, the right one, and that can slow down time to fill. If it’s helping sort of sort through too many candidates, it also can have a really negative effect on the candidate experience. To your point, if it’s taking longer if they’re applying for jobs that maybe you’re already almost through the process with the candidate, but someone else is coming in that they’re going to hire right, someone else is coming in and applying that candidate experience, I would say the good news is you have more candidates, the bad news is you have more candidates you’re not going to hire. So there’s a really an important sort of piece there to continue to maintain that candidate experience, both so that when that candidate applies for the next job or your company, they want to work there. But also, we know there’s a financial impact of a poor candidate experience that that candidate may be your consumer, and they may not want to come back and spend money with your business if they had a poor candidate experience.

Eric Gelle 17:09
Yeah, I noticed with my customers is the fact that they are better using the technology that they have. So a couple of years ago, you found out from managing a community of candidates community of applicants, the what we call the CRM candidate relationship management tool that was not existing. And nowadays, before when they post a job, most of the companies, they already have a bench of candidates that are in their system. And they use that compared to 10 years ago, when they were always starting from scratch. Oh, I look, I’m looking for a new marketing director. And they started they were always starting from scratch. Nowadays, they have this bench of people, they have this community and they also add that community and all the previous candidates to their pool of of candidates to one job, and it’s adding people and very qualified people, which is I think smart and very interesting.

Mervyn Dinnen 18:05
With increased numbers, the other side of the coin, and you know, looking at all the digital sites I’ve seen particularly over the last six, nine months, obviously an increase in recruiters being laid off. We’re getting a bit of a logjam here, because we’re getting more people applying in Europe. We’re possibly internal, you know, our recruitment teams, our TA teams are maybe slimming down. We’re talking about candidate experience now, which is such a key driver. Are we in danger of maybe losing candidate experience? Because we don’t have the manpower? Or are there ways that you see organizations trying to keep people engaged?

Rhea Moss 18:43
I would say short answer. Yes. You know, long answer, we hope not. Right. That is what we this is where we hope technology can fill gaps we Marvin, I love I love the way you put that right? We’re seeing a lot of and this is a global phenomenon, right? When you see reduction of force, when you see layoffs, one of the first to go a lot, unfortunately, has been those recruiters if you’re not planning to grow the business, they they are what people think of as a growth role inside the organization. And yes, we saw the same thing. I always say to our customers, we remember what happened in 2020. Right? We had layoffs who were the first to go, recruiters. And then in 2022, we saw all these headlines and every news outlet in the world, which is what was the hardest role to hire, what was the largest wage inflation in 2021 and 2022 was recruiters and I mean, and then now we’re doing it again. And so there’s this notion is kind of, I would say like, are we ready to hit the gas pedal again? Are you ready for your CEO? Just like Erica gets talked to a lot of CHR OHS and a lot of VPs of talent acquisition I say, are you ready to get that phone call again? That phone call you got whether it be in late 2020 or 21 or 22. It was different in a lot of industries. But you ready to get that phone call that says hey pedal to the metal. Let’s go it’s time to hi You’re because don’t forget what happened last time, which was I don’t have anybody to do the hiring. So this is where we’re we are at danger if companies are not taking sort of smart steps right now, maybe you’re not hiring right now. But it’s a great time to build up the candidate pools. Because if these candidates are having these poor experiences, now they’re gonna have a bad taste in your mouth. Have you got to call them six months from now, because we’ve seen a turnaround in the economic situation and businesses are looking to expand again.

Eric Gelle 20:26
I think companies because if you ask all, if you ask CEOs on the market, they will all tell you that hiring the right people is key for their business. I think that’s a trend on the market anything which is very good. Also, obviously, and I think when there is a crisis, the liquidators there is a balance between internal slash external mobility. And most of the people most of the large enterprises in the market are also much more looking for internal mobilities, which is also still a TA either in charge of that. So and when unfortunately, the companies are decreasing the number of TA I think the candidate experience is still a key, key topic. And again, back to the technology, with all the what you can do nowadays on the candidates based on the way you interact with the candidate, the way you talk to candidates, the way the videos, all the tools that you have on the market, it’s helping to keep a very high relationship with candidates. And that’s what we do. But most of the companies are really, really conscious about that. Nowadays, no one is saying, Oh, we don’t care about candidates, we’ve got plenty. No one is saying that. So it’s still a very key topic.

Rhea Moss 21:45
And I think that’s my recruiter, efficiency is key. If we have less recruiters and we have more candidates, then there’s really only one option, which is to make those recruiters as efficient as possible is to use the technology to still make candidates feel that they’re getting a human touch or human interaction. But slimmed down the time it takes a recruiter to have that interaction. And I agree with Eric, this is where I think AI has a really interesting role and will in the future. But it’s also just pure technology of simple things, scheduling an interview, how fast can we do it? And that’s where I think the tools come in play for teams that are are kind of slimmed down or smaller. Because as we talked about, there are more applicants coming in right now there’s no doubt. So even a team that’s the same size has kind of more to do more to process more to get through than they did a year or two ago.

Mervyn Dinnen 22:37
Now you’ve actually, I suppose partially led me on to one of the last questions I wanted to ask, which was one of the other things that the BBC website picked up from your research was about the the never ending interview cycle. They did a thing on this. And what we’re talking about, obviously, more people applying possibly less recruiter capability. Is there a kind of slowdown in hiring? There was something I know that I read around the research about kind of, there are more interview rounds, because of more, I suppose remote and hybrid working. There are like virtual calls being added to face to face. And are we seeing this maybe becoming a much longer process?

Rhea Moss 23:26
Eric’s nodding I’ll let it I’ll let him go first on this one.

Eric Gelle 23:30
So it’s a trend on the market, definitely to add more and more even for in the past for 20 or an internship. It’s one two interviews. And that’s it. Nowadays, they do test that background checking data, which is new in Europe, we were not doing that the past. So it’s definitely adding step to the processes for you to take a sales job. We are always doing like Fidel interview with the business case presentation. And you’re right. I mean, it’s due to the fact that it’s remotely most of the time. So because it’s remotely we need to be sure so there is plenty managers involved. And we we ask, yeah, we increase the number of interviews and for any job, any position.

Rhea Moss 24:18
But I think the benefit of remote interviewing, which may be a benefit, maybe not is that I think about five years ago, and if I had an interview round at a company, I was taking an entire day off work to do it. And it was you know, driving to their headquarters or taking public transportation to their headquarters and getting there and it was like a four or five hour thing. And it was my whole day off work and you know, we made up an excuse to our current boss, so we had doctor’s appointment, whatever that might have been. And now if we want to add, hey, we you know, we before we make this offer, I’d really like Eric to talk to this person. I need Eric’s I need this person to take a 30 minute zoom. It takes 30 minutes of their time. And so It’s easier for the employer to say this one more person or this one additional ask, because it’s not carving out a whole day off of work necessarily anymore. It’s, I just need 30 minutes, a 30 minute interview takes 30 minutes now, a 30 minute interview in the past took eight hours of PTO. And I think that there’s also that piece of it that is allowed some flexibility to say, you know, I can think in the past, I’ll tell you, sir, actually, when I interviewed at iCIMS, I had an interview scheduled, and it was, you know, one interview round, but it was three or four people and one of those people went on a business trip. So my interview was postponed two weeks. I think that changes now. Now it’s okay, you talk to these three people, and Al’s gonna call you when he gets back or he’ll call you from San Francisco. And so I think there’s a lot of flexibility that’s been added with this kind of remote type of interview as well, that maybe didn’t exist even just five years ago.

Mervyn Dinnen 25:48
Is there a possibility, though, that now that we have that option, we’re almost becoming a bit more indecisive about it, because we can easily say, well, we don’t have to ask them to take another day, to invest the time, we can just do a 30 minute zoom call to suit them, that we start maybe bringing more people into the process, or we may be making it last a bit longer.

Rhea Moss 26:11
I think there’s two pieces to that. And then I would love Eric take as well, I think one because we’ve been through so much in the last four years of businesses expanding and contracting and expanding and contracting, a higher maybe a little bit more. And it should be rightfully so more of a commitment. And let’s make sure this is the right person. Because there’s been a lot of companies have taken a lot of hits for doing layoffs or doing reduction in staff. And they really want to make sure I think right now more than ever, that this is the right candidate. That being said, I completely agree with you, you spoke about kind of the power dynamic or or companies having an upper hand versus applicants, maybe a year and a half ago, that wasn’t necessarily the case, even though we were still in sort of this expand, contract expand because when I talked to customers, it was, by the time I make an offer, they’ve already got three others. And when we see applicants for opening or that I was telling you kind of that talent supply and demand, when we see the numbers go up, it gives employers a little more confidence to say, well, maybe I if this doesn’t work out, and they already have another offer that in that pool of 60 candidates already have, there may be an a one in there. That’s also just as good. I think those sorts of psychological shifts happen when you have more candidates kind of throwing their name in the hat as opposed to I’ve only got a hiring a registered nurse. And I’ve got eight candidates. If it’s right, I’m telling hiring managers make the offer. There’s no more what else is out there. I think that’s where when we see that APO number come up, we see a little more of those behaviors creep back in, that were common five years ago, which is this candidates fantastic. What else exists?

Eric Gelle 27:43
To complete array as well. I think nowadays, after the COVID crisis, people are not only joining a company, they are also joining a team, and they want to go and talk to the managers, the co workers and different people in the team. It’s very important for most of the candidates not to get the job, but to know the people they are going to work with. And this very often I have candidates asking me, Can I meet other people in your team, blah, blah, blah, it’s happening a lot. Several HR people, and nowadays they have also to increase in back to the previous question. They also have to increase the number of people they talk to, because they want to know more, but then discover more about the company and people you’re going to work with.

Rhea Moss 28:26
Now I love that I think that’s a really good call out some of this slowdown and more interviews I do think does and should come from the candidate side. When we were seeing those rush offers how fast we make hires, we then a year later talked about, wow, resignation rates have shot up, right. So this connection, a mutual connection, I like to say it’s almost like dating. If I took a job via interview with company, I met two people, they made me an offer that would be a red flag for me as a candidate at this point. Because I know how easy it is for me to talk to three or four more people. I have the power to ask for that now. And I think we see that coming from candidates much more now than we did five years ago.

Eric Gelle 29:03
And you’re right. But back to the intro. The power is is it’s more it’s definitely not more into the employers. It’s also on not even on the employees, it’s there is a better balance between employers and employees. And the power always the power because, yeah, candidate competence.

Rhea Moss 29:22
I think that’s not being talked about enough anymore. I think a lot of our customers, they say camera candidates are confident to ask for anything they want any more. Right? They they’ll ask for changes in where they work, when they work, how they work. It seems like everything’s up for negotiation now. And I think there’s a lot of shifts happening right now in candidates saying what they need in the process as well. Not just like, you know, here’s the job description. Here’s where we’d like you to work and how we’d like to work and how much we’re gonna pay you and take it or leave it and maybe in the past they negotiated the salary side of it. But now I think kind of everything seems to be a little bit more up for negotiation.

Mervyn Dinnen 29:58
Um, well It’s been fascinating talking to you both. There’s loads and loads of insights in this research, we will put a link to in the show notes to the download so people can download, download it. And what I would ask to wrap up is to obviously, for each of you, Raya and Eric, to tell people how they can connect with you. But also, if there was like one or two key takeaways of the whole conversation, what would they be? I should start with Rhea?

Rhea Moss 30:29
I am very active on LinkedIn, we put a video up every month of our findings of our research, as well as some of our bigger research reports, we have a couple coming out. So my first name is little odd spelled Love Spell, it’s our H E, a moss on LinkedIn. So definitely love to connect there. I will actually be heading over to Europe for breakfast, UK and presenting some we’ll be doing more research in the next couple of months. So also visit us at breakfast, UK, iCIMS is sponsoring over there as well. And I think my big takeaway I warned you in the beginning of meeting you today, Mervyn, as I told you, I’m a big data nerd is just really using data to help tell a story, that there’s so much right now out there. And I think, you know, we love to see the data getting picked up by the BBC and bison, these news outlets, because there’s a lot of people feel a certain way. But it’s really helpful, especially for talent acquisition practitioners to have the actual metrics to say, it doesn’t just feel like we have more candidates here are really this, this research and these benchmarks that are bigger than just economic data points, but actually talent acquisition data to say, you know, either what’s happening to us is happening to everyone, or we’ve got something special going on, and we need to double down on it.

Eric Gelle 31:40
On on my side, I always like studies surveys, because it’s it’s explaining also the behavior on the market from customer slash candidates. I think something that we did not mention that is also key for companies is the cost the cost of fire, because it’s, it’s, it’s an expensive job, and it seems to search for good candidates. And they want to be sure that they invest their money in the right way. So this is also all that kind of studies on and the power between candidates and employees. And it’s very interesting for the companies out there drive their brand awareness, and how they can manage the cost of fire. And because they need to take all of that into consideration. So I really I think it’s really, really interesting for for the companies to read that kind of data crunching data analyzes on the market, because it’s helping them to drive their strategy for the recruiting. And yes, I’d be happy to connect on LinkedIn. We are also doing a very big event in UK which is like Fest in July. So we will be there. It’s more fun to either but it’s an interesting event. I’ve been there a couple of times and it’s it’s really amazing.

Mervyn Dinnen 33:04
Rhea. Eric, thank you very, very much for your time.

Rhea Moss 33:08
Thank you for having us.

Eric Gelle 33:10
It’s been a good day.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai