HR Happy Hour 486 – Inclusion Lessons from Special Olympics Athlete Leaders

This week we were joined by Kiera Byland and Ben Haack, Athlete Leaders from Special Olympics to talk about their experiences in athletics, what they have learned from competing and from being a part of a team, and what advice they have for HR and business leaders for creating more accessible, welcoming, and open workplaces for people having Intellectual or Developmental Disabilities. This was a really interesting and inspiring conversation with two amazing young leaders working to make the world a better place, by encouraging all of us to value all people, no matter what their challenges may be.

Thanks Kiera and Ben for joining us!  Subscribe to the HR Happy Hour wherever you get your podcasts.

Transcript follows:

Steve 0:00
Welcome to the HR Happy Hour Show with Steve and Trish. Trish, it is early as we record this maybe our earliest recording ever. Right after this recording Trish, since I did not have time before, I’m going to make myself an extremely unhealthy breakfast I’ve decided. So here’s my question to you. What is the one unhealthy food or drink that you just can’t resist? Even though you know, you probably should?

Trish 0:27
Oh, my goodness. Well, good morning. And yeah, it’s fairly that’s a tough one that I can’t resist. You know, for me, I don’t know that it’s one thing, but it’s definitely sweets. And I always try and do it every time, but I really try to eat my dessert first. Because I hate to eat a whole meal and get so full and then there’s a wonderful, you know, some sort of dessert and I can’t have it. So I would just say, in general desserts, I can’t resist them. I actually try and eat them first. And I am the mom that’s as you know, whatever that’s known to give the kids like, for breakfast or whatever. So yeah, dessert. Absolutely. How about you?

Steve 1:09
It’s easy Trish, and I’m going to have this morning and it’s Spam, my favorite breakfast meat product. I love it. I think it’s underrated. It’s very versatile, and goes well with everything. So I’m having some that this morning with some eggs. That’s my plan.

Trish 1:23
I am not a Spam fan. But I was recently in Hawaii, which as you may know is like Spam is the most popular thing there. And they have like 30 flavors. I believe it’s 28. Anyway, they’re doing a ton of flavors there and even get spam for breakfast and McDonald’s. I ordered it. I actually ate it.

Steve 1:43
I need to get out there.

Trish 1:44
With rice and eggs.

Steve 1:46
We could talk about this all day. You can follow us on my other podcast like breakfast meats daily. But we’ve got a really good show today. An important show for us. It’s a follow up show to one we did back in February. With Special Olympics and Skillsoft. We are going to be talking to athlete leaders from the Special Olympics on our show today, which we’re super excited about. I’m really glad they can make some time for us today. Before we welcome them to the show. Trish we want to mention a special event that’s happening June 10 and June 11, from our friends at Paychex. It’s called the Thrive event. It’s two days of insights, resources and solutions. You need to build a better workplace, build a better team and build a business that will thrive in 2021 and beyond. It’s an online event. From our friends at Paychex, it’s going to feature speakers like Daymond John from Shark Tank who you know, the CEO of Paychex who’s great, Sai Wakeman, our friend Jean Meister, Trish is part of this event, Tom Hammond, our legendary friend from Paychex. So we’re super excited. We learned a little bit about this yesterday on a call with our friends at Paychex and encourage everybody to check it out and sign up it’s for free next week or this week coming up. And add go dot paychex.com slash thrive. Trish you learned about this yesterday too. And if you want to mention anything special about it too.

Trish 3:08
I did I just want to say it’s what’s special about is it’s not just focused on human resources. This is truly focused for any business leader who wants to understand. And I thought it was really interesting. They’re breaking the two days down. The first day is all of the futurists, all of the people who are thought leaders and and really solid business leaders just across the board. And day two, I think they said they’re gonna have at least nine live demos. So I think that’s amazing. Obviously, I’m a huge fan of actually seeing product in action. So again, even if you just kind of come in and out of day two and look at a couple different you know, new technologies. I know that that’s something that people always like so yeah, two great days. Please join our friends and show sponsors at Paychex.

Steve 3:52
All right, awesome. We’ll put the link in the show notes as well. So thanks to our friends at Paychex. So this let’s get on with the show. Trish, we’ve got two great guests waiting from around the world. A truly global show today. Our first guest is Kiera Byland. She is 22 years old and she is a special olympics Great Britain athlete since 2014. Kiera has numerous learning disabilities, which include numeracy, reading time calculate and dyspraxia. Despite these disabilities cure has been able to achieve so many wonderful things, and she is a true leader and Ambassador for inclusion. She helped create a pilot called the Kiera project to inspire other children and other young people with intellectual disabilities to never assume you can’t achieve and to always hold on to your dream and that it can come to Kiera. Welcome to the show today. How are you?

Kiera Byland 4:40
I am good. Thank you so much for having me. I’m really excited.

Steve 4:44
Thank you so much. Let’s also welcome our other guest. Ben Haack is a special olympics athlete leader from Australia. He is an inspirational athlete and accomplished football and cricket player. Cricket is very hard, by the way Trish I tried to play it once it’s impossible. And a mentor ambassador for Special Olympics Australia. He is the athlete representative director of Special Olympics Australia Board the athlete representative on the Special Olympics Asia Pacific region Leadership Council, the co chair of the Asia Pacific Athlete Input Council and the athlete representative on International Advisory Committee of the SOI board of directors. Ben, welcome to the HR Happy Hour Show. How are you today?

Ben Haack 5:23
I’m good, how are you?

Steve 5:25
Awesome. Cricket is very hard, right? If you’re if you’re not, if you are not a born cricketer or from as they say, cricketing nation, the first time you step up with that bat and that ball comes at you, like 1000 miles an hour and bounces in front of you. I was ready to run for the sideline. Like I was so scared.

Ben Haack 5:41
I’m impressed. You know what cricket is? I know there’s a lot of Yeah, a lot of people from your part of the world you don’t so yeah, yeah. Game, no question.

Ben Haack 5:54
It hasn’t caught on here, as we say, as yet, but maybe, maybe it will. So Kiera and Ben, thank you so much for joining us, as we mentioned at the top. Trish and I did a show a few months ago, that talked about inclusivity accessibility in the context of Special Olympics, when we thought it’d be a great idea. As part of that show, we learned about your stories, both your stories and watched a few videos and kind of got to know you a little bit virtually. And then we thought I’ll be great to have you guys on to talk about these issues. Around inclusivity. Accessibility, it’s very important to us, you know, H3 HR, we’ve been talking about it for a long time, we’re doing some research on it right now. So maybe Kiera, I’ll start with you, just maybe, if you could help some of our folks who are listening again, who kind of those corporate leaders, those HR leaders etc. Are there are some things that you’ve kind of learned in your journey with Special Olympics and also just your personal journey that maybe some people who were on the corporate side should be thinking about, they should understand or at least be aware of when when we’re talking about specifically around providing better access to folks with intellectual or development disabilities, or some things you love folks to know.

Kiera Byland 7:02
Yeah, let’s just say that when you’re working with people with disabilities, and especially with intellectual disabilities, it’s just being open minded. And as long as you’re trying to be conscious of that, and trying to think of solutions to problems, a few things I would say that work really well is if you have pictures, or like drawings, if you have audio so then if you’ve got a document instead of having to read it and get confused, you can listen to it, and then maybe having like a visual videos, but if they are coming to your building of your meeting, then they will know exactly what’s going to happen step by step structured, there’s also a fun interactive way to help people learn a little bit better.

Trish 7:51
You know, I think you’re just spot on Kiera. And I wonder, too, I know that, you know, Steve and I are both we’re kind of I’m fangirling a little bit because I have you know, seen seen both many videos about both of you. So it’s kind of an unreal that you’re here with us. But can you also maybe talk a little bit about, you know, your events that you participated in at the Special Olympics, like as a competitor? And then maybe how that even ties into, you know, sort of being able to communicate in a workplace or not. Right? And be included? Has that participation helped you at all, and maybe just tell the audience a little bit of your backstory, if you will?

Kiera Byland 8:35
Yeah, of course, when I first started in Special Olympics, I didn’t have friends at school. So I was very isolated. But then in 2015, I got the opportunity to come to Los Angeles, and represent Great Britain in cycling. So we do road races and time trials. I did a 15k Road Race, a 10 Ks Tantra and a 10k road race? I was 17. I didn’t really know what to expect. I thought, right? Okay, let’s go. Let’s work hard because I had a coach as well, that gave me a training regime. So it was really hard as pushing myself to make sure I was ready to go for the games. I did go, I got three golds, which was amazing. I was so happy about that. And then I came home. And then 2019 I got to go to Los Angeles to defend my gold titles, the 10k time trial and the 15k road race. Instead of doing a 10k Road Race, I switch that to the 25k road routes. Through those experiences. I learned how to work as a team, what is friendship, how to support each other. And then with the Abu Dhabi experience now I have six Olympic gold medals in cycling which is a huge achievement for me, especially with my education. As your list is, so my disabilities can be quite confronting, which can be a little bit unsure, especially working with new people. But as a team, it was really crucial to understand how each other’s work best, especially when you spend not two weeks, with some people that you, Trisha, they wouldn’t know straight away. But it’s nice that you can make your friends, you can make memories. But you can also have goals individually. But you can have goals as a team, I think that that corporate side, as a team with members of staff is it’s okay to have big goals. But also make sure you have personal ones as well, that can help you build that gap a little bit closer. And then you can achieve more as a team because you’re supposed to in a team for yourself. But you’re also a friend as well. And it’s making sure you don’t forget them both because they’re both very cool. So make sure that your team is successful in whichever they choose to do.

Steve 10:59
Kiera, then that’s really great. stuff really helpful. And I think that leads us into when I asked Ben about right, you talked about some of the sports you’ve done and your success as well. So then your sports that you’ve participated in, and then well, I want to get into some of the inclusivity stuff as well. But you’re you’re a team sport player, right soccer and cricket, right. And so maybe I’d love for you to comment a little bit about your background as well, your participation in those events and sort of your introduction to this space, and then kind of some of the things you’ve learned and you’d love our audience to know about being more accessible and being more inclusive.

Ben Haack 11:32
Yeah, so I’ve been in Special Olympics for over 20 years. Similar to Kiera, I had a really rough time in school, and a lot of bullying, just a really bad sort of cultural environment, which unfortunately, can still still happens today, it’s just an unfortunate thing. And my mom went out and looked around for services for me to access and she found Special Olympics, she found a football program. And I kind of started off in football. And then I always played mainstream cricket, I had some challenges, but I kept assisting with that. And I’ve also played in Special Olympics with cricket as well, what I would say is for Special Olympics, it’s it’s good for both sides of the equation. It’s not just good for the athletes, it’s also good for anybody without a disability, for a whole lot of reasons. I mean one, you get to actually engage with people disabilities, instead of reading about them in a book, or going to talk to the medical professionals or the experts or any of that. So you get to actually engage people have the, you know, whoever you know, who have disability, so you get to learn. You also, you also get to learn that really, you know, we’re not necessarily that different. As Kiera said, maybe some of the ways we go about explaining things, or maybe some of the techniques with the coach used to coach athletes might be a little bit different, maybe there will be a bit more investment in time. I know our organization we do have to visioning, so we do have a catering for our ability, not just elite. And that goes all the way through the entire organization, like even athletes at World Games are not necessarily elite athletes, they can be all levels of ability. It’s very much a focus. for athletes, I think it gives you gives you the opportunity to aspire gives you the opportunity to learn goals, it gives you the opportunity to work in a team environment, and to learn how your strengths or weaknesses can work with other people gives you an opportunity to to develop social and emotional sort of skills that are very important. All staff that can very easily translate into into work. And I do get there for people probably in HR that probably would probably struggle to even perceive that in sport, let alone Special Olympics, but it does. And it again, it’s a really great educational environment, and social mechanism for people with and without disabilities. And it’s fun. And when people have fun, they tend to learn more.

Trish 14:15
I love that. You know, Ben, one thing that really struck a chord with me as you were were giving your story is, you know, you put it in the perspective of maybe being the leader in a company or you know, a co-worker or colleague in the company. And you were saying that it was I made a note here that it was good to engage with people with disabilities because it helps you learn. I wonder if I could get maybe both of your thoughts Ben you first and then you Kiera second. One of the things that I’ve always thought both in in having people within my family, extended family who have different learning disabilities, and abilities is that I’ve always felt it’s really on me to figure out a way to communicate effectively with them, it’s not the other way around, which kind of goes with what you said, Ben? So I guess my question is this, I almost feel like when you’re out in a workplace, a lot of us tend to put it on the person with a disability. And whether that’s a learning disability or physical disability, we almost put it on them, to tell us what they need. And I’d love to hear your thoughts on a little more on what do you think we as the leaders, we, as your fellow co-workers could do that would really help bridge that gap? Because it’s really not on you, to tell us what you need. That’s not the only thing, right? It’s, we need to be taking active ownership of that relationship. Do you each have maybe some advice to people again? And kind of springboarding? Ben, what you said about, you know, it’s valuable for us to learn? Are there any specifics that you found in your just your life experience where, where a co-worker or a boss or something has really stepped up in a way that was really helpful to making you feel included?

Ben Haack 16:13
Yeah, it’s an interesting thing. Because you’re right, I think it’s kind of interesting, like, it’s always traditionally been viewed as the person with the disability that probably does need to make the adjustments. And now it’s kind of shift where people feel it’s, everybody else. I kind of feel it’s both. To be quite honest, I kind of think the real answer to it is being allowed, allowing people disabilities to be able to talk about who they are, and engaging them in meetings and developing a structure where they can give back and let you know how things after them and that sort of stuff. I think that is invaluable. in a lot of respects. I absolutely people with without disabilities do need to be more open and do need to make an effort to engage. And I think through that, and I think, again, gotten to the point of Special Olympics, what you see is that’s kind of really what happens in Special Olympics, we’re probably never been that great of being able to explain it, or to get the research behind it, or all the other stuff that people generally want to have to be able to prove something. But when you’re there, you tend to see that I think that’s probably the big key thing. So that’s probably my advice. I think it’s a bit of both.

Trish 17:44
Thank you. Kiera, how about you and your experience? Is there anything that stands out where you feel like either a co-worker or you know, a supervisor, or a boss, another leader, someone really made you feel included? Because they weren’t necessarily putting it all on you the responsibility was more of like Ben said, more of a joint effort? Because I think sometimes, you know, someone who’s hired a lot of people, I think, sometimes we’re almost afraid to ask what, or even know what we can be doing. So what advice would you have kind of in that regard to just based on your experiences,

Kiera Byland 18:24
I would say that taking time because we are so busy, as a whole. And we feel a bit rushed, we’ve got deadlines, we have things to do, which is all okay, but at the same time as if you truly tried to get to know some of the day, you can’t rush that process. It’s not a quick fix it’s long term. And as long as you’ve got that open mind of going into that working relationship, that you know what, we’ll take it steady, step by step. And we’ll build on that working relationship to help make this team or this company a success as well. And sometimes you are right, some people are afraid to say, you know what, I need help with this. But that’s where that teamwork and that friendship comes into play, really, because if you come in as a supporting role, but also not having your limitations down to the floor, like having realistic expectations, assessing right I expect you to jump up here, I would expect you to be down here and it’s actually having those conversations. When you get to know somebody then you go right Okay, I got it. This is where we’re here, but we can get up to here. And it’s just thinking about adaptations really. So for me, when I work with people on emails or bits and documents, I struggles free black text and white paper. So I say please, can you change the font color. And as long as people do that, also do that in attachments. Some people can forget that because as I said, we can be quite busy, we’ve got things to do fast, okay? But it’s also saying that you’re doing all wrong. It’s just trying to find that nice balance in between saying you can’t accept that. So you know what it’s a fact is up there we can do about that. We’re trying to look for those solutions together. Instead of somebody going by I’ve got solutions. And you don’t need to do anything, you know, it’s that equal in that workout, which is really important.

Steve 20:36
Kiera, I think you made a great point there, when you were talking about the the text and the font size that you you know, that makes it easier for you to read and understand. Because to me, that’s like, it’s a small thing. It’s a very, very small, it will take a person literally seconds right to transform a document into a different font or different font color or a different typeface, etc. It’s literally almost no effort at all, but yet that small step that small, that all of a sudden has is included you in a more meaningful way into the conversation or into the collaboration or into whatever that documents about right. And then it’s not that difficult. And I think, I don’t know, maybe I throw this out. They’re both procure to and Ben is your experience been whether it’s in your, in your work, in your competition with Special Olympics or in the your other endeavors, that oftentimes these are small gestures or small little adaptations that make a big difference is, that kind of consistent with what your experience has been.

Kiera Byland 21:38
But as well, but just say that, I think because they are so small, you can’t see them as bigger ones, because most people go for bigger adaptations, instead of small ones, that actually should be the other way around. We should be looking at the smaller ones first, and then actuate to the bigger ones.

Steve 21:57
Yeah, Ben, you had a comment? I think,

Ben Haack 21:59
Yeah, a lot of people have the perception with when it comes to adaptation or disability, that it’s going to cost a lot of money, it’s going to cause a lot of problems, it’s going to be difficult, it’s going to affect everybody else, when in fact, the evidence show doesn’t have to cost that much money at all. It can be something simple. And in fact, and I think it will continue to happen, there’s overwhelming evidence to prove that it helps a lot of people, not just the necessarily the person or the group that you’re trying to do it for. And it also has been shown to help business. So yeah, I think those perceptions, it’d be good to get rid of those sorts of perceptions.

Trish 22:43
I agree. I think one thing, Kiera said, the kind of applies to what you’re saying, Ben, is that, you know, having a disability is not a flaw. And I know, I can tell you, Steve and I both believe in that 100%, it’s really being able to figure out, like many of the ways that businesses are not successful is because they they do try and hire everyone who is almost the same, if you will, right. They’re looking for people with the same degree and the same life experience. And, and they think that’s what means inclusivity, right. And that’s not it, it’s like if you hire people who definitely have all different learning abilities, you will probably approach if we, if the four of us were given a problem, we would probably have four different approaches to a solution for that problem. But if we all went to the same type of school and had the same education, and, you know, look, you guys are special Olympians, you can obviously add, you know, so much rich feedback that someone like me, who is not an athlete could never ever think about. So I think if you’re someone who’s hiring, if you’re someone who’s looking to build your team stronger, that’s a good example of how it doesn’t matter how you learn, or how you communicate that it’s like, you have to really think about that individual’s life experiences and how that might really enrich what you’re trying to do on your team. Have you all found, even outside of Special Olympics? Have there been times where you found that to be either true? Or maybe kind of at the other end of the spectrum where you really felt like, I’m right for this job, or I’m right for this team, this project? And they weren’t. You don’t have to call anybody out if that’s the case. But you know, I’m saying just more more in general, just have you found times like that, and if so, because I’m sure you might have, what would you say to young people who are maybe entering the workforce, who might be in that situation to maybe someone who has a learning disability or physical disability, who is is not feeling included? Is there any advice from your experience? Maybe start with Ben first? Yeah, what would you tell a young person, you know, maybe entering the workforce? If they’re feeling excluded? Do you have any tips?

Ben Haack 25:17
I think, from my experience, firstly, first of all, hard work is is a universal concept. I think that’s always something if you can learn that, I think that’s always an important thing. I think the other thing is the ability to learn is not necessary, in my opinion on necessarily defined by these, these constructs that we have, I think the ability to learn is something that’s a conscious effort. And if you can make an effort to do that, and I think hard work and the ability to learn are very important, I think you do have to have a bit of a fair amount of grain. Because unfortunately, what we’re talking about has a tendency to still happen. It does. There’s no question about that. I also think, try and make sure, try and make sure that you don’t see yourself as being disabled, I think is another big thing that I unfortunately see on the other side and people disabilities. Also, don’t ever try and get sucked into the certainly, in some countries, the welfare dependency cycle that tends to happen. So in other words, try and, you know, yeah, if you want to work, I think I think that’s fantastic. I think you should work hard. I think you should try and work as much as you can. I think I think you’ve just got to keep trying. And I definitely think, yeah, and I think, special, which is a great organization, if you want to join to play if you’ve got our sort of disability, because again, we can certainly help in that sort of regard. And yeah, I just think those, those are probably the really important bits of advice that I would have.

Trish 27:03
Kiera, how about you? What would you sort of advise young people as they are maybe facing some of these times where they don’t feel as included as they would like to?

Kiera Byland 27:14
I would just say that don’t say, being not chosen as a bad thing. You know, that doesn’t necessarily mean that oh, well, you can’t do it, see it as a challenge and see it as a positive because these people are trying to help you improve. They’re not trying to hurt you. You know, and that’s a really difficult thing to understand, especially when you’re young, because you can greeny rates go up? Yeah, yeah, I can do this, which is great, because you want that enthusiasm. But it’s also saying that sometimes it could be just because you don’t have the experience, it takes time to have experience, but a way to do that is shadowing somebody else. Speak to people who have more experience in you that they can actually help you get a few tips and hints first also saying like Ben, you know, don’t give up the first try. Sometimes you have to think outside the box and think okay, right, we’ll go this way map and go from the side. Maybe I can go from the top, maybe from the bottom, maybe from the corner. It’s just thinking, how creative can you be to actually choose something that you want to do?

Steve 28:23
Guys, last question for me, I think would be Ben, you’ve been involved in the Special Olympics for quite some time, as you mentioned, Kiera, as well. Going back a number of years now to your, wise old competitor, yourself and champion. Are you feeling generally optimistic? Or or good about how things are changing? are they changing for the better? Or, in your opinion, from your experiences? Do you feel like institutions, organizations, maybe society more broadly, it’s getting better at some of these issues and getting a little bit more inclusive and accessible? Are you are you optimistic about how things are going? Kiera, I’ll throw to you first.

Kiera Byland 29:05
My answer is yes, I am optimistic because especially with big things happening in the world, people communities, they’re coming closer together. They’re starting to think outside the box, it’s not going to be a quick fix like that everything will be sorted the ambulance tomorrow. It’s just going to take that time but like I said at the start is as long as you were trying to improve on innocent little thing. That’s great. If you can do a lot more than that. Even better, versus trying to work as a team try and be open minded. And if you do need help, just sometimes ask for is unnecessary have to be built. The firm sometimes could just be a text, you know, or Snapchat or something like that. It could be little, but as long as people about to kind of help each other. That’s all that matters really.

Steve 29:59
How about you, Ben? What do you think you’ve been sort of as again involved in Special Olympics for quite some time, been an athlete, competitor, man, athlete leader for a while? What’s your kind of assessment? And how things? Are you feeling optimistic things are getting better? Or maybe not?

Ben Haack 30:12
Yes, things are getting better. There’s much about that. But you see, with that comes some challenges. I think sometimes I think people will that things are naturally more inclusive, there is still a journey to go. And I think particularly in the area of, first of all, I don’t necessarily think the challenges are no, the improvements become systemic enough. In enough parts of the world, I think that I think this space still has a tendency to suffer. This is a mindset that’s been there for years of the, you know, we can talk about the positive teacher, or we can talk about the positive employment place, or we talked about the positive athlete, even Special Olympics, I think, dare I say, suffers from this as well. I think the shift is going to be more systemic, more wave, the inspiring story to something a lot more deeper, and a lot more tangible. I think that’s the next step. And that’s probably going to be the hardest, hardest step. Because what I’ve seen, I don’t think the human rights, legal parameters are necessarily going to create that I think the only way you can create that is for people to truly see value in that and to not see inclusion, as a separate, feel good. Something to make themselves feel better, or something they can improve their reputation is something that’s really tangible.That yes, things absolutely have improved. And give me optimism.

Steve 31:50
Awesome. Thank you, Ben for that. I think that was really insightful. And I think an important message, maybe to sort of head out on right, like, we need to sort of move me on the exceptional story. Right? We need you guys both have exceptional stories. Right. And those are great to talk about and great to showcase and great to shine, shine a light on. But you’re right, I think Ben right, once where we need to get to the place where maybe these stories don’t stand out so much, right. They’re just part of the normal mainstream, you know, workplaces and organizations and societies. Right. It’s just part of the normal. Right. And that’s, that’s going to be the harder challenge but one that hopefully will we’ll continue to work towards I think it’s been a fantastic conversation. Guys. I do want to thank you for taking the time with us today. Thank you. What’s next Kiera and Ben, we still competing? Are we still out there? Give us like the last little last little bit. Kiera, are you out there. You still racing? What’s happening?

Kiera Byland 32:49
Wow. Ask COVID. Yeah, I’m joking. Yes, though. I have started to do mainstream races locally. But at the moment Special Olympics over here is taking time to slowly allow thoughts to start back again. So I don’t think they’ll be lots of competitions this year. Because of, you know, being able to train for so long. But I think we’ll be out there at some point. And I’m always doing athlete leadership stuff because everybody loves to do it. Because it’s good fun.

Steve 33:24
All right. Good stuff, everyone. Thank you so much, Kiera, and Ben for joining us and taking the time today from around the world. It’s been our first one of our best global shows ever spanning multiple time zones multiple days, even it could be a different day, Ben, where you are, I don’t know what day it is. It could be like another year, for all I know. But thank you so much. Again, we’ll put some resources in the show notes as well in back to our earlier show, too. And Kiera Byland, Ben Haack, thank you so much for joining us once again. All right, Trish great stuff.

Trish 33:56
Great show. I’m think you know what it’s interesting is we just kind of close the show. I’ll say that many of the tips and many of the things that they talked about apply to really anyone you’re hiring and it just will if you if you put those things into practice you’re just going to be more inclusive in general, which is a good thing so let’s let’s all just keep getting better at this there’s no reason that we shouldn’t be and and I love the idea of just teamwork friendship and I’ll my final thought is something actually that Kiera said, which was around it takes time. You can’t rush these relationships with people. That’s true of all people. So let’s really take our time and be thoughtful when we’re hiring someone to try and really get to know them and not focus on what makes us different but what will really help bring them into your organization and into your team. So that was great advice.

Steve 34:50
All right, good stuff. I will wrap it here for our guests Kiera and Ben, for Trish McFarlane. My name is Steve Boese. Thank you so much for listening to the HR Happy Hour Show. We will see you next time.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai